Opposites Attract: Susan & Christian Wilder
Susan Wilder is all about Jewish New Jersey! Her husband Christian is a professor of theology and Old testament. They found life and spirituality together through common faith and very different cultural backgrounds. This is their story.
"Everybody, regardless of belief, is created in the image of God and deserves to be respected.”
Listen on…
Interview Transcript
Tuvya: Christian, did you know many Jewish people when you were growing up in the Pacific Northwest?
Christian: No. I think I knew only one or two people who were Jewish. That’s about it.
Tuvya: Do you remember any of your first impressions?
Christian: No, because I was older. I was already out of college, and I was working with this person. We ended up having dinner, and I was just fascinated. I’d graduated Bible college and was already deep in my faith. So, I was just fascinated
by Jewish culture and any of their possible connections to the Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible. We just talked culture and that kind of stuff.
Tuvya: From your early faith and Bible college ideas, did you have expectations about what a Jewish person would be like at the time when you met Susan?
Christian: I don’t know, It wasn’t something that I had many expectations about. I think what surprised me most was her being from New Jersey. The Jersey girl culture.
Tuvya: Susan, on first meeting Christian, were you thinking, Wow, we’re in really different cultural spaces?
Susan: Yeah. The difference was what drew me to him. He was so focused and had everything so planned out and he was so calm. I’m not saying that Jews aren’t that way in our culture, but it was just a very different experience. Though I grew up around a lot of Catholics, I never really dated a Christian guy before. You know, I always dated Jewish guys. I hate to say it, I continued doing that even as a believer in Jesus. I mean, I also dated some Jewish men who weren’t Christians. We all think we can lead them to Jesus, right? I just didn’t fully understand the importance of being equally “yoked.” So, I was just so drawn in by the difference in his personality. I think from the beginning, Christian and I hit it off immediately. We were never at a loss of words. We could just sit together and talk.
Tuvya: Was it a big step for you to seriously think about marriage?
Susan: Though I worked in the seminary IT department, I also played piano. After I helped at a worship event for the school of missions, a bunch of us went to Sausalito to grab some dinner. Well, Christian and I just started talking because
we already knew each other at that point but weren’t dating yet. And when our table was ready, I remember one of his friends invited us to join them to eat. I’m like, “Oh, no, we’re fine. We’re fine.” And we just kept talking and talking. I was
just so intrigued by his dedication to the gospel and his studies. His planning for his future was just unique. It was a conversation I never really had with anyone before.
Tuvya: I’ve found that cultural differences show up in different ways throughout four different phases of a relationship. The process begins when they’re dating and getting to know one another. They realize that person is saying things, and I
have no idea what they mean. Or they’re using the same words that mean something different by the two of them. Then comes a wedding, wedding planning, and the level of challenges really escalates. So, I want to ask you guys
about that. I understand that you two had some very interesting cross-cultural discoveries when planning your wedding.
Christian: Well, I think just the way we grew up, our tastes and expectations, just started to show up. I remember registering for the wedding gifts, and Susan wanted to go to Macy’s and places like that. Well, my mother grew up on a farm. So, we had a different level of “style.” I’m thinking, We can just go to Target. And
our differences in those expectations was a real culture shock. That’s not necessarily a Jewish-Gentile thing as just being two people who grew up in different geographic locations and cultures. You know, New Jersey meets Pacific Northwest.
Tuvya: Guys don’t usually spend a lot of time growing up imagining their wedding day. So, I’m asking Susan, what did you picture your wedding would look like?
Susan: It was completely different from what I planned, but it was exactly what we needed. Once Christian and I started officially dating, we got engaged three months later and then got married three months after that. It all happened within
a six-month time span. I was fascinated that he didn’t talk to his mother about it like every day or once a week. Where with me, if I didn’t call my mom, she’d think I’m off dead in a ditch somewhere.
Tuvya: You know the Jewish mother story that begins with a phone call from her son. She says, “I’m starving! And you haven’t called me in over a week.” Cautiously, the son asks, “Ma, why are you so hungry?” She says, “Well, I’ve been
sitting by the phone every day waiting for your call. I didn’t eat anything because I didn’t want to have my mouth full of food in case you called!”
Susan: Right. I was close with my parents. Calling every day was just something we did. It was just our ordinary practice. When Christian and I were planning our wedding, a lot of issues came up with my parents. Christian noticed how upset I
got. And he would tell me, “This is your wedding, and there’s something called boundaries.” I wasn’t used to saying “no” to my parents. People at the seminary were glad to help, but they didn’t understand why my family wouldn’t attend if
we used the campus chapel, even if it was available for free. Golden Gate Seminary naturally had a big cross in their chapel. So, Christian and I had to find a place that didn’t have any Christian symbols.
Tuvya: That was for you for the sake of your family.
Susan: Yeah, that was for my family’s sake. Even the food at our rehearsal dinner became an issue. So, we had to change the place where we held it. And of course, that was frustrating for my fiancé. Christian was asking, “What is going on? What am I marrying into?” Those issues were normal to me but completely foreign to Christian.
Tuvya: Christian, do you want to add any insights from your perspective?
Christian: Yes, but I’m a bit hesitant because there were some tensions about spiritual or religious elements too. At one point we were talking about who was going to do the prayer at our reception. It was for a traditional Jewish prayer in
Hebrew. Susan wanted her father to do it. Within Christian tradition, we pray in the name of Jesus. So, I wondered if her father didn’t believe in Jesus, then how do we have him do that prayer. We wrestled back and forth. I knew that this was
sacred ground for Susan because it’s her dad. And traditionally, the dad does that prayer. We talked it through and found a Jewish believer in Jesus that Susan loved and respected. He did the prayer for us. Later, we did something else to honor her dad as well.
Susan: Two of my Messianic Jewish friends did the b’rachot (blessings) for the meal and the wine, which was actually grape juice, because the reception was hosted at the seminary.
Tuvya: When they did the b’rachot, did they do it in the name of Jesus?
Susan: Yeah. That’s part of the sensitivity with my family, because by that point, I had already become a believer (in Jesus) when I was 20. So, by the time we got married, I was 38. My parents had a history of seeing God’s hand on my life.
Everyone in my family would observe, “You have some relationship with God we don’t understand.” So, they knew we were trying to be respectful of them in the choices we made. For instance, the choice we made about where we held the
wedding. It was at the Montgomery Memorial Chapel at San Francisco Theological Seminary. There are no Christian symbols in the facility, but there are gorgeous stained-glass depictions of Old Testament moments. A rabbi was also using the chapel for his Friday night services. When we heard that, Christian and I knew thought we could get married there because it helped comfort my family that a rabbi was using the space. On the evening of our rehearsal, as we were all leaving, the rabbi happened to be entering. So, we got to meet him. I was grateful because it demonstrated to my family that we were trying to keep everyone happy.
Tuvya: That illustrates how important it is to recognize the cultural sensitivities that parents and friends could feel while attending a multi-cultural event like that. There is a balance between hosting an experience of your own faith with integrity but doing it also with respect for the people who aren’t on board with your beliefs by making them feel welcome despite cultural differences, including core beliefs.
Susan: Exactly. Our wedding was officiated by a respected Old Testament professor at Golden Gate Seminary. We wrote our own service and incorporated what we held as important to us as believers in Jesus with a lot from Jewish
traditions. I taught our prof how to chant the Aaronic Benediction for the blessings at the end of the service. And when we said our vows to one another, we wrapped my father’s tallit (prayer shawl) around our shoulders. That was how
we honored my father, by using his prayer tallit. It was beautiful. And Christian ended the ceremony, of course, by crushing the glass.
Tuvya: And everybody shouted ...
Christian: Yep. “Mazel tov!”
Susan: Well, the Jewish people said “Mazel tov.” The others mostly said “Amen!” They didn’t know. ***Laughter ***
Christian: Actually, half my family was looking around saying, “What’s going on?” because half my family have no faith whatsoever.
Tuvya: So, Christian, what did your family say when you told them you were dating a girl who is a Messianic Jew?
Christian: Well, my mother said, “Why can’t you date a Christian?” And I said, “Mom, I am. She’s a believer in Jesus.” “Oh, okay.” That’s one of those things where we use the same terms and have different understandings. I had to explain it all for her.
Tuvya: Susan, you described being raised in a very traditionally Jewish religious faith tradition. You’ve come to share Christian faith with your husband who is a pastor and has a PhD in the Old Testament. How would you describe the way in which you have grown together, especially spiritually?
Susan: I think a very important thing is how my husband stresses that everybody, regardless of belief, is created in the image of God and deserves to be respected. At the same time, we’ve said, “Just because I’m a Christian doesn’t mean I’m a carpet for people to step all over.” With the family dynamics that we described, we have learned how to express “no” in a loving way. I had to learn that because in my family, we’re loud, boisterous. We can have an argument and then two seconds later, say, “Okay, let’s go to the House of Lam for Chinese food.” Everything is fine! It’s like there was no argument. There are no hard feelings. For us, it’s over. Where among non-Jews that’s not normal. People take time when
there’s an argument. I think the most important thing for me is the theological application on our faith now. Growing up Jewish, we didn’t read the Bible that much. Oh, when I was a child, I did read the Psalms and I loved them. I was going through some family pictures recently and found one of me praying over a birthday cake when I was eight. My hands were pressed together. It’s funny to look back and see how I believed in God, had a relationship, but didn’t know the kind of fulfillment I know now. I read the Tenach (Old Testament) or the New Testament, see the Old Testament covenants, and finally understanding why we were God’s chosen people. I can understand better the theological importance in each of the different covenants. It has been fascinating to be with Christian and ask him questions about those things and to study the Bible together. It has enriched my faith as a Jew to see how God wanted us to understand the Messiah. Now I see how all the holidays point to Messiah.
Tuvya: So, Christian, what’s it like being an in-house theologian? (Laughter)
Christian: Well, of course, there’s good things and bad things. The good stuff comes from great conversations we have over dinner. Although at other times, I might be doing work in my home office, and I hear a knock on the door. It’s my
inquisitive wife who is excited to bounce a new thought off me. It’s frustrating, only a little sometimes, because I have ADHD. So, once I get focused on something, I want to stay focused. On the other side of being the “in-house theologian” is that I found that I had to be careful how I stated things. Faith is often expressed through the lenses of scholarship and tradition. I realized I could say something from scholarship that could be very offensive because it didn’t consider how that might intersect another person’s tradition. That made me really sit back and think how I can share what I want to say in my partner’s tradition, so my intent is received without being offensive.
Susan: One area where I see a struggle is the role of the Torah in the life of Jesus’ followers. A lot of Messianic congregations take a different approach to the connections between tradition and scholarship. Some try to be Torah observant to varying degrees and others that take a very different view. I grew up in a Torah-observant family. So, I’m uncomfortable when people were saying, as believers, we still need keep kosher and remain under the Law. I really struggle with that, and I wanted biblical answers and Scripture to support different approaches. So, biblical scholarship and talking with Christian have helped take my anxiety down and have given me more understanding.
Tuvya: Well, it must be a blessing to have an “in-house theologian” where you can work on those things together. Discipleship is a long-term growth process. And you two get to work at that daily in your married life. That’s one wonderful example of what spiritual harmony can look like. Thanks for sharing your lives with us. Each couple has a different set of challenges that are unique to their own set of cultures. But it’s encouraging to hear how others have found ways to deal with them successfully. Thanks to Susan and Christian Wilder for being with us and sharing this way.
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If you or someone you know would like support in your relationship, write to tuvya@jewishgentilecouples.com.
